i don't know if he wants to drawn people receiving student loans, who are receiving, you know, medicare or who are beneficiaries of cancer research. people are getting food stamps, kids in head start, are they all in the bathtub to be drowned too? it's a glib phrase, but as we learn recently when they shut down, and as we see repeatedly, you know, there's a lot of people in america who benefit and depends upon government services, and the idea of making it smaller for the sake of making it smaller, you know, appeals, i think, to folks who may have been in the av and libertarian club in high school, but, you know, that's not the way the world works, and it's, you know, not the way i think most americans see the government. they don't like big government. you know, they don't like the idea of big government, but they want it to be active and provide a pretty healthy and robust social safety net. >> we're talking with the washington bureau chief of mother jones. mother jones, how long has you have a washington bureau and how long have you been the chief? >> guest: they started the bureau a